Trembling Blue Stars

The point I am meaning to make is that the Trembling Blue Stars (and all of Wratten's past bands) make beautiful music that will have a effect on your life. Thanks to this interview, I discovered that Bobby and I share tastes -- I, too, own every Jackson Browne and Paul Weller record -- and was also pleased to learn of his excellent taste in books. Some people don't care about such things, but I guess I do. The Trembling Blue Stars, Field Mice, and Northern Picture Library hold very special places in my life, and this meeting with Bobby has only intensified my appreciation. I can't wait for their new music, which is coming this summer from Shinkansen and SubPop, and I really do feel blessed to have had a chance to see them perform.

Splendid: Well, to start off, how are you doing on the American leg of your tour?

Bobby Wratten: Well, it's the first time I've ever been here ... erm, I've been a bit sleepy, 'cos I haven't had much sleep. I mean, I've met some really nice people. Last night was the first time I've ever played in America.

Editor's Note: We congratulate Theodore on joining the elite cadre of Splendid writers who've asked an artist how the tour is going on the first or second night they've been on the road. It's a gift.

Splendid: Really, so tonight's only the second time you've ever played in the U.S.?

Bobby Wratten: Yeah, it's the second of two dates... and then there's an acoustic thing in New York on Tuesday. So it's all quite new, and as I say....

Splendid: You're only playing three times, then?

Bobby Wratten: Yeah, but I hope to come back and do a proper tour later in the year, which will be my Sub Pop tour.

Splendid: Oh, that's fantastic... I mean, it's really nice for us, at least!

Bobby Wratten: Yeah, this is to do with March Records' anniversary and (March Records honcho) Skippy McFadden had asked us if we would come and do it. 'Cos we had thought when we did come over it would be with Sub Pop, and I think that's going to happen later in the year when the record comes out.

Splendid: Are you very familiar with March Records at all?

Bobby Wratten: To be honest, I wasn't. I know Harvey (Williams) has a record of his on their label from earlier. And Bedford as well... but it isn't something I know much about.

Splendid: Of your work with Trembling Blue Stars, the earlier albums deal rather intensely with love, its difficulties and the problems of maintaining friendships once some of their intensity has faded... Does "Dark Eyes" hint at happier records later down the line?

Bobby Wratten: Well, the next record (presently called Alive to Every Smile) is written, and we're actually in the middle of recording it at the moment. We're just taking a break to come and do this. And it's a pretty dark, gloomy record. It didn't start out that way, 'cos I was actually feeling like happy -- really really happy, you know? But I just wrote a bunch of songs at the start of the year, and it's really hard to explain, but it's sort of familiar territory. It's not as though I wrote this one as well about Annemari or anything. I don't know, I just kind of... without just getting into what the songs are about, it's sort of, I just wrote this whole bunch of songs and gave the demos to Matt. And he was really enthusiastic and said this is the best stuff you've written, and let's get on and make an album. But it is quite... I don't know. It's not really as upbeat as I thought it was going to be.

Bobby Wratten: Yeah, well, it just sort of happened that way. With the single, it was just like, well, these are the tracks we want on the EP. And it's chosen almost sonically, by how they sound, if you see what I mean. But yeah, I believe you, it doesn't get much gloomier than "Half In Love With Leaving" (the last song on the Dark Eyes EP). The only thing, placement-wise, that was deliberate on Whispers was the second-to-last track, "Sleep". I thought, you just can't end an album on that. It's just such a downer. I like the fact that "Dark Eyes" takes some of the edge off "Sleep", which is the low point of the album in terms of emotion. And "Dark Eyes" is a bit brighter, and that was deliberate, not to end on that depressing note. It undermines "Sleep".

Splendid: "Farewell to Forever", the website devoted to the band, comes from the last song on Lips that Taste of Tears. If I remember correctly, that's what the Trembling Blue Stars news update service from fans Christos and Marianthi is called, too. I love the song, and have put it on many mix tapes, and friends always seem to get confused by the track, or even upset. Do you mind talking a bit about what you were going after there?

Bobby Wratten: Although I sound really sad about the song, it's meant to be quite positive, like, "Okay, it's time to get on with my life." So that was the point of it. But it is quite a sad song as well. And it's Annemari's favourite song, which I'm really pleased about, that she really likes that song. She said to me, "I hope every time you sing that song you think of me." And I said, "Well of course I do!" So, yeah, it's two things: okay, I'm trying to get on with my life -- but it's also quite sad.

Bobby Wratten: Really? I'm surprised it doesn't seem really obvious, but I've always loved the Beatles. They're really hard to get away from. I don't know... I always find myself thinking, well, okay, I've listened to the Beatles enough. And then I always find myself going back to them. (The drum portion of the soundcheck begins, and Wratten starts laughing. "I'm shouting!") You can't get away from the fact that they sort of invented everything that everyone does, from writing your own songs, to studio techniques... Just the way they progressed so much in a short time. So, you know, saying I like the Beatles is the most obvious thing in the world, but I do. There's been hints of that in the Field Mice. I mean, the last album... That was pretty Beatles-y, I think.

Splendid: I guess, for me, it took a long time to catch that side of the band (which is present, looking back, through the band's more orchestrated passages) until "Wrist" hit "Love Me Do"-like territory... Coming into the venue, I think I noticed Harvey Williams outside. Is he part of the band?

Bobby Wratten: Yeah, he did a couple things on the first album, just playing guitar. But he wasn't really part of the group then. That was just as a friend, where he came in one afternoon and did a couple things. But any time I've played live, Harvey's done it with me. We did a few things around the time of the first album, and sort of left it there. We didn't play live for three years but then we sort of started doing it again. On the first record, it was me and Harvey, and we had Michael [Hiscock] who played bass for us and who was in the film, I suppose. He lives in France so it was a one-off for him, and then we got Keris (bassist from the fabulous Brighter), and then we became a five-piece. But Harvey's always been there in some fashion.

Splendid: Is Josh Gennet touring with you this time too? I know he was involved with the band on a European tour once, wasn't he?

Bob Wratten: Erm, that was just when Harvey couldn't make it, when Harvey was doing his own stuff. Josh stepped in and helped him out. But he's never been involved with Trembling Blue Stars.

Splendid: Now, I was wondering if you could actually discuss your song-writing process a little? A lot of your songs seem intensely personal and when I've reviewed them, I've always had trouble because it's difficult to hear the music and not read into your relationships, or the way your own life is turning out. Then again, I hear the songs, and connect so immediately with them. One of your songs, "Willow", had meant so much to me on a personal level.

Bobby Wratten: Well, good. Obviously, my songs are personal, and they are quite autobiographical. But if that's all it is, it's not really going to work if it's just me talking, and I'm the only one who knows what it's about. So hopefully it has to just work on the level of just being a song anyone can hear and go, "Oh, I know that feeling". 'Cos people are always wondering who songs are about, or they would just assume every song is about Annemari, and I kind of asked for that [laughing], but they do, whether they are or not. There has to come a point where it doesn't really matter who the song is about, just whether it's a good song or not. Ultimately that's my defense to people saying I just write the same song over and over again -- well, as long as it was a good song I wrote! The way I write them, I think what tends to happen is, you have the real-life incident, or whatever you want to say, and you end up with a song. And a few things change in between. You might not even notice, you know, just when you're writing a song, how certain things make more sense, even in a song where you exaggerate some things. Essentially, that's pretty much how it is. I just... I don't even know. When writing the songs for the new album, it just happened that over a two week period I got lots of ideas, just when I was about to go to bed or something. I'd start thinking of the song, and I'd end up staying up all night, and in the morning I'd have a song. And that happened like six nights in a row. Sometimes they'd literally come out of thin air; other times they're just ideas that you've had for a long time, and you finally get down to doing it. There's a big element that just sort of comes out and you're almost writing it before you even know what you're doing. That's not to say that I don't know what the songs are about; it just almost seems natural. And that's why if I don't write songs for ages, I don't worry, because eventually, like what happened at the start of the year, I'll go through a period and I'll write loads. I do tend to write in batches.

Bobby Wratten: Not really. I don't tend to worry about going too far. Obviously Annemari has been involved in the last two records and she's heard all the demos for this. With the earlier songs, she was maybe the one person who, if she went, "I really don't like that", or "I'd rather you didn't say that", I'd listen to her. But she's never done that. She's a big fan of songwriters and people who write personal songs anyway, so she kind of understands this sort of territory.

Splendid: This is the oldest and worst interview question in the world, but in your case I'm actually dying to know: who are some of your influences?

Bobby Wratten: It changes so much. Actually real classic songwriters. I've always been a huge Jackson Browne fan; that's just something I can't really shake off.

Splendid: What's your favourite, The Pretender, or...

Bobby Wratten: Probably Late for the Sky.

Splendid: Oh, for "For a Dancer", or the title track?

Bobby Wratten: I like "Late for the Sky", but also "Fountain of Sorrow", "The Late Show", all of those songs. I love the first album as well, just for the sound of it; there's really nice songs on that. Those first four albums are... I mean I've got all his albums, but as it goes on, there's fewer songs I like. Although there was a few really nice songs on I'm Alive. Like "Sky Blue Black"; that is a really nice song.

Splendid: And do you like his political stuff?

Bobby Wratten: I think it's ok... I kind of admire him for doing it, because in a way, he did kind of sacrifice quite a big part of his career doing that.

Splendid: More like all of his career.

Bobby Wratten: (laughing) Yeah, yeah, it was just kind of like, "Ok, I can never be famous." And so I did admire that. I do typically prefer when he does things like, in the middle of Lives in the Balance, he did that song, "In the Shape of a Heart", which is my favourite song on the record. That's more like familiar territory for what he does best. I think he's really good at doing heartbreak songs. But I like so many different things...

Splendid: Well, what kinds of books do you like? Because The Story of O (from which the Blue Stars got their name) seems in no way connected with your lyrics, your whole aesthetic, and all that.

Bobby Wratten: No, Story of O was just something I wanted to read. It's one of those books you've heard about, and I saw it in a bookshop, and thought, "I should at least read that." And so that was what I happened to be reading when we were doing the first album, and I was looking for a name for the group. It (Trembling Blue Stars) goes no deeper than that. Some people said, "Oh, it goes with the sado-masochism in the lyrics" and I say, "No, no, I just found the name in the book." Well, I really like a Japanese writer called Banana Yoshimoto. She wrote Kitchen, which was turned into a film. I just love the way she writes, it's really simple. Oh God, I always have trouble... I mean, Broken By Whispers was from a Françoise Sagan book, and again, she wrote things like A Certain Smile and Bonjour Tristesse. I read all sorts of books, but I do like those quiet, simply written books that are very moving. I'm trying to visualise all the books that are on my bookshelf. I like all the obvious things like Jack Kerouac and Sylvia Plath. (laughing) Yeah, Sylvia Plath! One kind of figures, I guess! Musically, I'm a really big Jam fan, but it doesn't really come out in the music. I'd love to make an album like Sound Affects, you know, that stripped-down, kind of quiet live sound. I got into the Jam when I was about twelve, and I don't think I ever really recovered from Paul Weller, and that was it, really. Even now I kind of tolerate his solo material.

Splendid: I can fully understand... I even got the Style Council box set.

Bobby Wratten: Oh, that's all right, then. I started playing that so much recently. You think, gosh, they were so underrated, they wrote so many songs. Because their records came out immediately after the Jam split, I think people just didn't really give him the credit for what he was doing.

Splendid: Maybe it was how young he was at the time too.

Bobby Wratten: I know, that's the thing, they split the Jam up when he was twenty-four. I think he was twenty-nine when the Style Council ended, or something? So he did all of that, the Style Council and the Jam, before he was thirty. Yeah, I was reading the Paul Weller biography, and he was just soyoung! He was like, seventeen, eighteen when they were doing the first album. A Jam obsession comes around every... well, I think, okay, my Jam obsession's gone away a bit, then it'll come back in a few months. I like all of the obvious people too, like the Beach Boys. Oh, different stuff! I like loads of reggae; other than the sound of certain dub records, which, I mean, we don't get that sound, but sometimes there's things I hear in it that I try to put in what we do. Obviously, reggae doesn't influence the music. So a lot of stuff I listen to doesn't come through. And the stuff that does come through. Maybe Red House Painters, or American Music Club. I think Mark Eitzel's really brilliant, and still is, even if he doesn't make another record. Just odd things. Like, you know the Beat? I know that sounds really odd, but I've just been listening to them recently, like loads, and just thinking, God, they're such a fantastic group and they sounded so individual.

Splendid: I think Wakeling's got them back together again, even.

Bobby Wratten: Are they? Oh, no, you should never re-form! Yeah, and obviously, I like the old Factory stuff and New Order... but it's really hard. It's like trying to condense about two thousand albums into, "These are the groups I like". I like early Who as well. Do you know the Who?

Splendid: Yeah... I thought (The Who) Sell Out was a really perfect album.

Bobby Wratten: Yeah! But their first albums especially. And songs like "So Sad About Us"!

Splendid: Which again goes back to the Jam!

Bobby Wratten: Well, yeah.

Splendid: I was wondering, do you ever really get negative responses about your songwriting from the people the song may be about?

Bobby Wratten: It's surprising, but no. I often wonder what it would be like if someone did it to me. People do seem very accepting if you write a song about them, you know. Annemari's always said that if I ever wrote a song that she really didn't agree with, she'd tell me. But she never has done that. And so, so far, so good. But, obviously, we know all about Annemari... As I pointed out.

Splendid: Would Trembling Blue Stars evolve into something else if you took a different departure, thematically speaking? Because I notice that Northern Picture Library was a fairly happy band, and that was a sort of one-off...

Bobby Wratten: Yeah, that was kind of an odd situation, mostly. It was kind of the group Annemari and I formed off of Field Mice, and we were really happy and we were just looking for other things to write about, a lot of it instrumental stuff. It was like a reaction to the Field Mice -- a lot of the things we wanted to do in the Field Mice, but couldn't. I think I'll always stick with the Trembling Blue Stars name now; that will just be the name of whatever I do. I just write the songs, and then see what the records sound like. Hopefully, there's enough difference between each record to make it worthwhile to carry on.

Splendid: It just occurred to me that since you have such a gift for writing break-up songs, and songs about relationships... do you ever worry that the art might shape your life, in some sense, where it keeps you on a spiral in order to help the song? Perhaps it's something like a graph, where you can do it in your head.

Bobby Wratten: One thing I was saying to someone about last October, when I was preparing for this album. I was saying, "I'm really, really happy. I don't know what I'm going to write about!" But luckily -- no, not luckily, this is terrible! (laughing) But things did happen. To do this, I have to actually feel what I do. I couldn't be really happy and say, "Oh, well I'll just write a heartbreak song" and go and do that.

Splendid: When you care so much about your music, as I imagine you do, I guess there always just would seem that possibility of manipulated a depressive state in some way. Maybe it's easy to avoid, but to me, that would always seem to be a worry when you're writing such sad songs. It's like what happened with Anne Sexton. All of her fans wanted her to play up her suicidal aspects, and so she did, even when she was happy, and that brought her down worse than anything.

Bobby Wratten: I know... 'cos people always ask! I've done interviews, and people are surprised that I'm not really, really shy and weeping. They're like "Hey, you laugh! You're quite happy!" and I say, "Well, yeah!" It's just the song. When you're writing a song, even if it's a really sad song, it's still just a fraction of your life, you know? That song, "Sleep", is such a depressing song, and if I went round like that all the time, it just would be unbearable. It's like a photograph, just of a particular moment. But I don't know, I guess the two things are so entwined now, it's really hard to tell.

Splendid: Are you familiar at all with the popularity of the whole Sarah label, and the price the seven inches now reap, and things like that? A few weeks ago, I was looking at the Harvey Williams Rebellion album on EBay, and bids for it skyrocketed to something like eighty dollars.

Bobby Wratten: It's so weird. That was one reason behind the Field Mice compilation. It was just to get some of those songs out there at a normal price, 'cos they were quite hard to get. Also, the releases were so scattered. It was like, ten inch here, a couple of seven inches there, or whatever. I don't know... at the same time, it's just kind of funny that people would pay so much. Someone said to Edwyn Collins, "Face it, things are getting really weird when people are paying £100 for the Nu-Sonics albums", and he said, "No, they're buying a piece of art!" I wish I could say that, but I couldn't get away with it. It's kind of funny, because if anyone did want the early records and I happened to have them -- I haven't got them now -- I'd just give them to them, because I do only need one copy. But I don't really know much about what goes on, and I don't really read a lot of this (press and EBAY anecdotes) anyway. I just hear that people have paid high prices for things. But the thought behind the compilation was that if you were interested in the Field Mice, or you heard the name, there was a record you could go and get. I don't know what it is here --

Splendid: About .00.

Bobby Wratten ...but for a double CD, in Europe, it's a pretty reasonable price.

Splendid: Did you choose the songs on the compilation (Where'd You Learn to Kiss This Way)?

Bobby Wratten: I kind of did. We had a kind of band meeting where we all went round Claire's flat and just talked about what we were going to put on it, and that's where it turned into a double album. So everyone had certain input, but most of the input was from me and Claire. Claire wrote the sleeve notes. Claire and Matt did their list of songs, and we did ours, and there wer a couple of changes, and that was it, really. It really was simple to do. And I just put it together.

Splendid: Are you and Bobby involved in album covers and everything, too?

Bobby Wratten: Kind of, yeah. A lot of them have been done by Annemari's sister. She started doing them, and she's always done us proud. But yes, I am involved, yeah.

Splendid: One last question... do any of the Picture Center people have any involvement in the Trembling Blue Stars?

Bobby Wratten: Not really, no. It's really odd. Mark, who was the drummer in the Field Mice, is involved in Picture Center, but he doesn't actually play on the records or play live. He writes the lyrics, so that's the connection. When they started, they said that Annemari was in the group, which was a complete lie. Annemari explained "I'm not in this group! Why do they say I'm in this group?" So that was where the connection came about. But there is Mark, who was our drummer and is involved in that group.

Splendid: I guess I really don't have any other questions, but I thank you so much for the interview and your time!

Bobby Wratten: Well, thank you!! I hope you'll be able to hear it!

Splendid: I'm sure it'll be no problem. The recorder looks cheap, but God bless it, it's a good little product.